Post by greginlondon on Oct 22, 2006 14:14:15 GMT
Now I'm going to have to be careful how I phrase this request. I'm trying to do something not so many other pipers do and so have a slightly different perspective to some players.
Some years ago I began trying to branch out from the band staples of marches and other tunes played as if they were marches. I found the transition to playing some Irish tunes incredibly difficult (even when the tunes transposed well onto pipes) largely because of the difficulties of getting the different rhythms right. That's before allowing for the view that if you play a tune a few times you add in some variations for interest as you go, rather than playing a selection of tunes.
RELATIVELY speaking I would say that a straight 2/4 or 4/4 quickstep march should not present major problems because of their rhythmic familiarity and 3/4s are usually okay too. Moving beyond those does seem to become problematic.
Now I need to explain what I am asking about ... well over time I have come to the view that the differences between different types of tune need not be clear cut (reference people playing MSR with the same tune) and also that there are a wider variety of rhythm/tune styles than people might expect.
For examples:
Jigs are usually single or triplet. I don't mean 3/8 or 9/8, I mean that the music may be made of of a strong and a weak beat, a crotchet and a quaver, say, or triplets, usually with the accent on the first note.
In terms of time signature, they are 6/8, 9/8 or 12/8. 6/8s are the most common, but sometimes when played by bands might as well be marches (some may disagree here). Some are of course recognised as marches/quicksteps, although they were used as dances in the late C19 - I'm thinking of Atholl Highlanders for example here.
Then there are slip jigs, which have three clusters of notes ~ three triplets in tunes such as Drops of Brandy or Kid on the Mountain or three pairs as in a Fig for a Kiss. In English music these were traditionally written in 3/2 time and are closely related to hornpipes. Some 9/8s are used as "lilts" in Scotland too.
12/8s are called slides in the west of Ireland, but were also very common in England. "Up and Down the City Road" is a rhyme in this metre. Typically they use a strong single jig beat, but to be honest, the examples I play on the pipes this is not very pronounced, although still there. Examples are Paddy o'Keefe's slide, Bells and the House in the Centre.
2/4s and 4/4s have a variety of rhythms, which can be called polkas, hornpipes, marches, reels, rants or strathspeys. They all have slightly different forms of expression with plenty of overlap between each.
I tend to ignore schottisches largely because the form appears to be largely "buskers versions" for C19/early C20 dance bands of tunes where we largely have the originals.
My problem is that as I usually play these tunes by myself on the pipes I have no-one to play against to check the rhythm. When there is someone, for instance with a bodhran in a session, they usually cannot cope with anything other than a straight reel or triplet jig. They're sometimes close enough for me to realise that there are variations in my timing if they play a very simple beating.
Now simply I'm wondering if anyone else has found ways of practising this - excercises tips or what-have-you ? The session drummers will have trouble picking up the different rhythms from me if my technique is faulty, but it is difficult to correct. Admittedly hornpipes are not so bad, because band drummers can play those beatings, but the other trad dance rhythms are outside their repertoire.
I hope I haven't over generalised and upset anybody, as I am only looking for ideas. Obviously playing for actual dancers would provide the ideal solution, but there do not seem to be many about and I am not insured against the litigation if they wind up with broken ankles as a result of my playing.
Any comments welcome.
Some years ago I began trying to branch out from the band staples of marches and other tunes played as if they were marches. I found the transition to playing some Irish tunes incredibly difficult (even when the tunes transposed well onto pipes) largely because of the difficulties of getting the different rhythms right. That's before allowing for the view that if you play a tune a few times you add in some variations for interest as you go, rather than playing a selection of tunes.
RELATIVELY speaking I would say that a straight 2/4 or 4/4 quickstep march should not present major problems because of their rhythmic familiarity and 3/4s are usually okay too. Moving beyond those does seem to become problematic.
Now I need to explain what I am asking about ... well over time I have come to the view that the differences between different types of tune need not be clear cut (reference people playing MSR with the same tune) and also that there are a wider variety of rhythm/tune styles than people might expect.
For examples:
Jigs are usually single or triplet. I don't mean 3/8 or 9/8, I mean that the music may be made of of a strong and a weak beat, a crotchet and a quaver, say, or triplets, usually with the accent on the first note.
In terms of time signature, they are 6/8, 9/8 or 12/8. 6/8s are the most common, but sometimes when played by bands might as well be marches (some may disagree here). Some are of course recognised as marches/quicksteps, although they were used as dances in the late C19 - I'm thinking of Atholl Highlanders for example here.
Then there are slip jigs, which have three clusters of notes ~ three triplets in tunes such as Drops of Brandy or Kid on the Mountain or three pairs as in a Fig for a Kiss. In English music these were traditionally written in 3/2 time and are closely related to hornpipes. Some 9/8s are used as "lilts" in Scotland too.
12/8s are called slides in the west of Ireland, but were also very common in England. "Up and Down the City Road" is a rhyme in this metre. Typically they use a strong single jig beat, but to be honest, the examples I play on the pipes this is not very pronounced, although still there. Examples are Paddy o'Keefe's slide, Bells and the House in the Centre.
2/4s and 4/4s have a variety of rhythms, which can be called polkas, hornpipes, marches, reels, rants or strathspeys. They all have slightly different forms of expression with plenty of overlap between each.
I tend to ignore schottisches largely because the form appears to be largely "buskers versions" for C19/early C20 dance bands of tunes where we largely have the originals.
My problem is that as I usually play these tunes by myself on the pipes I have no-one to play against to check the rhythm. When there is someone, for instance with a bodhran in a session, they usually cannot cope with anything other than a straight reel or triplet jig. They're sometimes close enough for me to realise that there are variations in my timing if they play a very simple beating.
Now simply I'm wondering if anyone else has found ways of practising this - excercises tips or what-have-you ? The session drummers will have trouble picking up the different rhythms from me if my technique is faulty, but it is difficult to correct. Admittedly hornpipes are not so bad, because band drummers can play those beatings, but the other trad dance rhythms are outside their repertoire.
I hope I haven't over generalised and upset anybody, as I am only looking for ideas. Obviously playing for actual dancers would provide the ideal solution, but there do not seem to be many about and I am not insured against the litigation if they wind up with broken ankles as a result of my playing.
Any comments welcome.