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c flat
Dec 8, 2006 21:19:10 GMT
Post by amackenz on Dec 8, 2006 21:19:10 GMT
Hey everyone, I'm new to this forum and pretty excited about hearing back from anyone. My first question I want to post is: how does one play a c flat on the pipes. I've been trying to play Gordon Duncan's "Andy Renwick's Favourite Ferret" but since I don't know how to sound a c flat, the tune just does not sound right. Any help would be appreciated.
andrew
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c flat
Dec 8, 2006 22:20:45 GMT
Post by clash on Dec 8, 2006 22:20:45 GMT
I could be wrong but i think you just play a B note to get C Flat.
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c flat
Dec 9, 2006 0:28:35 GMT
Post by mrzdavid on Dec 9, 2006 0:28:35 GMT
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but on the pipe scale what is written as a C is actually a C sharp. So what you're actually asking for is how to play a C natural.
The finger positions for a C natural would then be:
x x x
x o x o
Where x = closed and o = open.
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c flat
Dec 9, 2006 0:29:43 GMT
Post by mrzdavid on Dec 9, 2006 0:29:43 GMT
BTW, you probably won't hear much differnce on the PC but on the pipes there's a BIG difference.
Cheers!
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c flat
Dec 9, 2006 1:08:29 GMT
Post by mrzdavid on Dec 9, 2006 1:08:29 GMT
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c flat
Dec 9, 2006 1:20:47 GMT
Post by amackenz on Dec 9, 2006 1:20:47 GMT
Thanks for the information. It's going to be different getting used to it, but I'm glad I know.
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c flat
Dec 9, 2006 13:23:31 GMT
Post by greginlondon on Dec 9, 2006 13:23:31 GMT
If I had answered first, I would have said that to get a FLATTENED C the easiest way is to finger it: x x x x
x o x x
Which only requires adjusting your fingering by one finger. Allowing for chanters reacting differently, am I wrong ?
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c flat
Dec 9, 2006 14:52:07 GMT
Post by mrzdavid on Dec 9, 2006 14:52:07 GMT
Greg, that would sound much the same I think. To be honest I don't play C naturals anywhere so I stand to be corrected.
Cheers.
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UkiPiper
BLITZED
Where the hell am I?
Posts: 105
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c flat
Jan 9, 2007 22:57:08 GMT
Post by UkiPiper on Jan 9, 2007 22:57:08 GMT
I was taught to play a C flat as
XX X X
X O X O
Almost the same as was said above but I think the pinky dose make a defense.
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c flat
Jan 25, 2007 2:50:28 GMT
Post by irish09pride on Jan 25, 2007 2:50:28 GMT
If the C is actually sharp, and you're making it flat, it will only drop down to a C Natural. However, if a C is natural, and it's being flattened, it will become a B.
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c flat
Jan 25, 2007 21:32:40 GMT
Post by mrzdavid on Jan 25, 2007 21:32:40 GMT
Doesn't C flat = B sharp?
Anyway, the C on the pipes is normally played sharp so flattening it would make it a C natural I think...
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c flat
Jan 26, 2007 1:08:13 GMT
Post by irish09pride on Jan 26, 2007 1:08:13 GMT
There's no such thing as a B sharp really, just a C natural. If the C is normally sharp, and you make it flat, it will be natural. I know little to nothing about bagpipes or bagpipe music, but on any music in band (at school), a C is natural unless made sharp with an accidental, or in the key signature. If the K.S. says it's sharp, but there is a Cb accidental, then it becomes a C natural
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c flat
Jan 26, 2007 3:26:20 GMT
Post by rick on Jan 26, 2007 3:26:20 GMT
On a piano, there is no black(flat/sharp) key between the b and c key (also no black key between the e and f)
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c flat
Jan 26, 2007 17:48:27 GMT
Post by mrzdavid on Jan 26, 2007 17:48:27 GMT
There's no such thing as a B sharp really, just a C natural. If the C is normally sharp, and you make it flat, it will be natural. I know little to nothing about bagpipes or bagpipe music, but on any music in band (at school), a C is natural unless made sharp with an accidental, or in the key signature. If the K.S. says it's sharp, but there is a Cb accidental, then it becomes a C natural Thanks for your lucid explanations. The only instrument I've ever played is the bagpipes and will freely admit my ignorance regarding more general musical theory. It's all very interesting to me though. Thanks again. I guess you only learn what you need to know, lol!
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c flat
Jan 27, 2007 3:12:19 GMT
Post by irish09pride on Jan 27, 2007 3:12:19 GMT
Is that sarcasm or seriousness?
I'm not trying to be a smartalec or act like everything I say is right, but I know enough that a B# is a C or a Cb is a B... No in between. And as mentioned, there is nothing between an F and E, Fb=E and E#=F
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UkiPiper
BLITZED
Where the hell am I?
Posts: 105
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c flat
Jan 27, 2007 7:45:06 GMT
Post by UkiPiper on Jan 27, 2007 7:45:06 GMT
I don’t know if Mrzdavid was sarcastic or not, I didn’t get that impression.
But back to the C flat: Bagpipes do not run off the same musical scale system that modern European instruments use, instead it used a much older scale system that it still found in the Middle east and in China. The Problem with Bagpipe music in its written form is that it tried to use the more modern European scale system that does not fit it fully, there for you will find something that Bagpipers call a C flat, the 10th hidden note. But these are just word with different meaning to different people and in different situation the meanings change.
The C flat is still debated in bagpipes till this day. I know there is one guy in my band that is a musician with other instrument and has musical training, and he always argues that there is no C flat.
Bagpipes are a very unique instrument and in till is has it’s own unique system to write down music, there will be problem writing it. But what we have no is fine as long as we are flexible about interpreting it.
As nice as it would be to say Bagpiper follow the same European scale as other instruments. We still need a name for the note that we can play hidden between the B and the C.
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c flat
Jan 29, 2007 23:22:38 GMT
Post by greginlondon on Jan 29, 2007 23:22:38 GMT
That's why I called it a 'flattened C' in my post. A piper calls a C a C, because in piping that's what it is. It may be closer in some ways to a 'western C flat', but as we play low A somewhere around 470~480 Hz it's probably closer to a concert pitch D. But I'm a piper, so what do I care, if I want a C a bit flatter than 'normal' I can flatten it in the way I suggested. Or the way others suggested. To avoid confusion in the future, I think I'll call it 'John'. Mind you, in some canntaireachd, both B and C have the same name (o) anyway, so a note in between is no great difference in the price of fish.
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c flat
Aug 17, 2007 19:01:35 GMT
Post by gpsaxophone on Aug 17, 2007 19:01:35 GMT
There's no such thing as a B sharp really, just a C natural. If the C is normally sharp, and you make it flat, it will be natural. I know little to nothing about bagpipes or bagpipe music, but on any music in band (at school), a C is natural unless made sharp with an accidental, or in the key signature. If the K.S. says it's sharp, but there is a Cb accidental, then it becomes a C natural Actually, if the key signature makes C sharp and a flat accidental is written in, the key signature does not apply. Cb is always B natural.
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c flat
Aug 30, 2007 19:28:17 GMT
Post by greginlondon on Aug 30, 2007 19:28:17 GMT
Sometimes it's best not to be too inflexible. You are describing notes in terms of western concert music. If that provides you with a common vocabulary to debate with others, all well and good, but staff notation cannot describe every possible type of music because it is limited to twelve semitones in an octave - and there is not a commonly used way of specifying which scale it refers to.
Pipes play a slightly different scale to the one described in staff notation. Try borrowing a chromatic tuner (I like the Korg CA-30 - it's quite affordable). Set the tuner pitch to match the keynote of A - probably at about 475 Hz and then play a scale without drones. You'll find most notes are not 'true' to concert pitch. That's no surprise - you'll probably get a similar effect on a piano (but for different reasons) - but it doesn't mean that we can't call a C a C or an E an E because it's not what a concert violinist would expect. It's a semitone and a half higher for a start !
If I call it a flattened C then I hope that won't cause any offence or lead to a misunderstanding. You could call it a C natural, but it would be between a C and a B. If you anyone has a better moniker for it, please do share it, but let's not get to absolute about terminology.
(mind you, I wonder what Wikipedia has to say about it ...)
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c flat
Dec 4, 2007 18:02:42 GMT
Post by boltonbagpiper on Dec 4, 2007 18:02:42 GMT
has anyone tried playing "flower of Scotland" using a C natural towards the end ("to think again" ) it sounds awful against the drones but gives you the correct melody
ouch
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