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Post by ego on Nov 5, 2007 13:26:29 GMT
Here comes a probably easy question, I haven't figuered it out till today.
What's the exact differenxe between the four? I always have benn told it was the accentuation, but in my eyes this doesn't always make sence. Maybe you can tell me once for all times how to tell the one from another. This is what I believed to know until now:
Jig: I play Tripping up the Stairs, Corkhill, Banjo Breakdown, Leather Breeches and so on. The tribblings and most of the other notes seem to be played even, so I think the point here is that there is no accentuation at all.
Reel: The only one I learned was Buntata's Sgadan at a summer school. The sheet music was written even too, yet it said "Reel" on top, and the tutor added accentuation by himself. So is a reel practically like a jig only you stress notes to create a differnt melody?
Strathspey: I learned Captain Horne and I believe the difference is that the accentuation is made (AND WRITTEN) in a way that allows dancers to do their dancing stuff with enough time.
Okay, this sounded logical so far, but this is what confuses me:
Hornpipe: According to my tutor, this is similar to the reel, only the accentuation is extremly strong. Now Itchy Fingers is a Hornpipe, and almost everytime I heard it it was played without much punctation. My tutor said "we're not playing it as a hornpipe" but what would it be then instead? A jig? Also, I tried to play parts of Up An Adam, which is also a hornpipe. I think I don't play it entirely wrong, since I got an record of it by the Victory Police Pipe Band and i can't hear no additional accentuation there either.
So isn't a hornpipe defined like that or what am I getting wrong?
Thanks for reading through all this.
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Post by robbiecrow on Nov 5, 2007 16:48:52 GMT
Coming from a drumming point of view
Strath = 4/4 (Strong, Weak, Medium, Weak) Hornpipe = 2/4 (Strong, Weak, Strong, Weak) Reel = 2/2 (Not sure) Jig = 2/4 (same as above) or 6/8 (Strong, Weak, Weak)
basicaly for us its the accentatoin and lengths of parts that distinquishes them all
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Post by greginlondon on Nov 5, 2007 22:31:13 GMT
Hi Ego,
The main differences are in the rhythm and punctuation of tunes, but you are absolutely right that many bands play the various dances asif they were marches. To really experience the differences you need to see or take part in some dances. I had an idea of the right rhythm for a hornpipe for example, but understood it much better when I went to a Morris dancing workshop and did the hop-step movements.
There are exceptions - some Lancashire clog dancers need their hornpipes played very even, for example, but that's exceptional.
In Irish music, jigs are sometimes described as: rashers an' sausages, rashers an' sausages If you say it to yourself, you'll notice an 1-2-3, 1-2-3 rhythm
When I was much younger I got taught a song: Oh MacTavish is dead an' his brother don't know And his brother is dead an' McTavish don't know And the two of them dead an' not one of them knows And the both o' them dead an' the neither o' them knows I don't know if that will help you as english isn't your first language, but if you read it, it sort of has a reel rhythm. Mind you reels can be 2/4 or 4/4 time - arguably they're almost different types of tune.
One very well known english 12/8 single jig goes: Up and down the City Road In and out the Eagle That's the Way the Money Goes Pop Goes the Weasel. The rhythm isn't so obvious without knowing the tune, but it is made up of a strong and weak beat with the emphasis on the beginning of each phrase.
To get the rhythm of a hornpipe, I don't know a rhyme, but if you stand still, then 'kick' one leg, meaning to raise the knee forwards, foot off the floor, you will find it easy to hop on the other leg. Sounds a lot to do at once, but it is what you naturally do when you hop forwards. For the next beat you land on the leg that you just raised/kicked, which means that you've moved a step forwards. For the third beat you kick with the other leg while hopping again, on to a step with the leg that just kicked. That makes four beats which repeat over and over. In England it is also called 'skipping' and children do it quite naturally. You can swing your arms at he same time. If you want to try it out, do it where no-one is watching. I think the rhythm is closer to a polka, but that's just my point of view.
Strathspeys are different again. You will need to see people dancing these. They are characterised by a back beat, which helps the 'travelling steps' to work. Unfortunately there are at least three different ways in which these can be expressed, depending whether you have a solo dancer bouncing on the spot, a wide open ballroom (as the Royal Scottish Country Dancing Society assume) or a tiny smoky little bothy where you might dance much smaller faster steps.
Please be aware that any of the above could have been varied for local situations or dances, so you may meet traditional players who do the opposite of what I have said, but hopefully what I have said is of some help.
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Post by ego on Nov 5, 2007 23:19:22 GMT
Thanks robbiecrow and greg, this is much more precise than the stuff I was told, I'll have to work through all the different characteristics. Just to get the right, a hornpipe doesn't have to consist of only stressed or cut notes? I found this video on youtube, and the guy's practialy playing the same Itchy Fingers version I was taught. According to your criteria, is this a hornpipe? www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOlE8hxd-GoThanks again for your efforts.
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Post by greginlondon on Nov 5, 2007 23:30:55 GMT
Staying consistent to my description, I would say that this is playing Itchy Fingers in a reel-type rhythm. Nothing wrong with that - if you play it for pleasure or for people to dance a country reel to that's fine. With the pipes you won't often be playing for Morris dancers after all (but I might).
Not everyone will agree, of course. I play it both ways, often alternating the styles and usually speeding it up each time. This works well in a crowded pub, but would not be so easy for a pipe band.
[If you like this tune, I have a third and fourth part by Eddie McHale I could email to you which works very well.]
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Post by ego on Nov 6, 2007 0:08:31 GMT
hey that would be cool!
my email is sh1n0d4@arcor.de
thanks a lot
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Post by mrzdavid on Nov 9, 2007 22:40:07 GMT
Up and Adam is written as a hornpipe but it's played even and not dot/cut. I'm not the best at describing musical theory etc but when you write out the tune you find it better written in 2/4 i.e hornpipe time rather than 2/2 reel time. I think the lines between reels and hornpipes have become more blurred in recent years. If you look in old music books you'll not find a hornpipe, or at best only one or two. Most will be labeled as quicksteps. Reels were always reels whereas hornpipes were more like 2/4 marches (especially ones with plenty of opportunity for emphasis) played up tempo. I think traditionally a hornpipe was a tune played for a dance as opposed to a 2/4 played for amusement.
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Post by robbiecrow on Nov 9, 2007 22:46:39 GMT
Can i just say, from a drumming point of view again, reels go alot faster (time wise) than a hornpipe
i.e. one part of a horpipe may last 30seconds, whereas a reel is about 20
its not PLAYED faster, but the part seems to be written shorter
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Post by mrzdavid on Nov 9, 2007 22:47:18 GMT
Ego, probably a good way to see the differences is to look at Caber Feidh. Over the years it's been written out in March strathspey, reel, HP and Jig time. I can send the bww file if you want. It's a good way to see the differences in the same tune.
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Post by ego on Nov 10, 2007 0:10:38 GMT
Good idea, I think would be helpful to see that.
sh1n0d4@arcor.de, your help is appreciated, thanks to all of you!
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Post by ego on Nov 10, 2007 11:50:23 GMT
The cabar feidh thing worked great, thanks for that.
Now I think I understand why Greg said the Itchy Finders version was a reel.
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Post by mrzdavid on Nov 10, 2007 12:42:13 GMT
I've sent the file containing all the versions of the tune. I was spelling Cabar feidh wrong and didn't find it the first time! lol
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joma
PIE-EYED
Posts: 26
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Post by joma on Dec 25, 2007 8:17:34 GMT
The College of Piping has a book called "Essential Tunes for the Piper". It includes a CD with the tunes played and sometimes commented on. Some of the differences between Strathspeys, reels and Jigs are briefly explained on the CD. There are no Hornpipes among the tunes. A few tunes are even written out as both Strathspeys and Reels. That in itself is quite a good illustration of the differences. Jigs are normally 6/8. Reels are in half time - alla breve - notated as 4/4, but with two beats to a bar, the first being stressed. ThereĀ“s a kind of a rolling and rocking feel to Reels. (though not rock n roll feel! ) Strahtspeys are 4/4 with all the beats being, more or less, equally stressed. I found it quite well explained in the book. John
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